Welcome to the Escaping the Accountants Trap podcast. It's a podcast to help accountants, CPAs and bookkeepers escape what we call the accountants trap. It's where accountants are not getting paid for their value, and are forced to work long hours with high, demanding clients with little pay. Well, how do you escape the trap? One way is the topic of today's episode, and that's by streamlining your operations so you can provide a VIP client experience and to allow you to work fewer hours.

To help me with the discussion, I've invited Jessica Smith and Jamie Grewal, the founders of workflows for Tax Pros, a company that helps tax pros automate their workflows for profit and time and freedom. Jamie and Jessica, welcome to the show. Well, thank you, Adam. So glad to be here. Yes. So I'm excited. I'm excited for this conversation. Because we're all about streamlining operations and helping business owners, accountants escape this account as trap so they can make more money while working less times.

So how did you how did you get into this business? Why did you start workflows for tax pros? Jessica I'll let you start. It starts with you. So I joke about this all the time. It was actually a very happy accident. I had a pretty bad experience with a provider that I was working with. Essentially what had happened.

I was gearing up for the upcoming tax season, I believe. It was like September 2020, and I had just done a ton of work into my systems to get it ready to go. And then I got a single days notice from this provider to say that if I didn't pay this additional fee, that I would lose access to, like, all this stuff that I had just works like weeks, weeks on.

And I had reached out to their team, and I had asked them why I didn't get what I felt was a sufficient warning. I had just renewed my, membership just a couple months prior to that. And, you know, their excuse was, oh, well, we forgot to send the email. And that was kind of one of several just instances with that company in particular that just really made me feel that their focus wasn't really on their client base.

And so I looked for an alternative. I stumbled across tax Stone and felt that this tool would really meet my needs. And because of where I was in the time of the year, I didn't have time to not go like all in on how this was going to work. So I spent I just closed my door and for three weeks I built out my systems in Tax Dome and a couple of my colleagues were also interested in the tool.

I said, hey, let me just show you, like what I figured out. Maybe this would help you guys. And, you know, one colleague that I met with was just really impressed with what I did and said, hey, I think a lot of people would be interested in this. Can I at least thank you by posting about you in the tax Stone community group?

And I said, yeah, sure. No big deal. And that turned into like a whirlwind within like three weeks. I had committed to do just a like little webinar where I was going to show everybody how I set up. I created templates, I was smart enough to charge a little bit for it. And the tax stone founders reached out to me, said they would co-sponsor the webinar.

It kind of just turned into a thing really, really quickly. And, hosted the webinar. People were really impressed. They continued to reach out to me wanting custom like one on one help, and it was not possible. I'm still an active accountant, and this was all during the tax season of 2021. I believe. There was no way I was going to be able to do it.

And by chance, I mean I had met several months before in a Facebook group. There was what, like 35,000 people in this group, and she and I were the only people who connected with the one post that she had about, like market research. She and I just really hit it off. And so I remember that meeting and I said, hey, Jeanie, I've got this.

I've got this thing that could be something, you know, would you be interested in maybe looking it over? You know this, I already have like a referral source. I could bring in and that just kind of like, that was kind of the history of the whole thing. Jamie took the concept and the idea and we really work together.

And she. She made it like a thing, which I thought was amazing. There was no way I could have developed, like, what she's put out there today. So, Yeah, that's that's the that's the version of of what I remember. I know Jamie probably has some stuff she wants to maybe add on that. Yeah. No it was Jessica had created amazing workflows.

And she really is so talented at seeing processes and and seeing how her client experience can be bettered through automation, through systems, and leveraging the tools that she had available to her. She's very, a very, there's like a word I'm looking for, but like, she's this is really can get in the weeds and like, create something out of nothing.

It's really amazing. And so she shared with me that she had done this, and I had been, my previous experience was setting up healthcare at system six and seven figure projects. So I knew how to implement software, and I was trying to look for a way out of the corporate world, as so many of us do, is after about ten years and I had discovered software startups.

And so Jessica shared that this tool is out there that was very similar to another tool I was using and helping people set up practice management. And I was like, well, I've been doing that for ten years and I know this other tool, so it can't be that hard. And so I just dove in and between the two of us, we kind of put our two brains together and created one mega brain and mega like automation system.

And so yeah, we just started helping people and serving their community, and we quickly grow a community of nearly well. We have a nearly 6000 people in it now, but it was just there's such a need in this industry for innovation and overhauling systems because as happened in the healthcare industry, everybody was very paper and they were forced to go digital because that's what their client base was demanding.

And that is happening today. And, you know, the the idea of the industry making that shift from paper to digital and virtual was kind of forced on everyone in 2020. And I think people thought, oh, I need to do this. But sadly, everyone just kept bolting on all these weird things and they have these Frankenstein systems now. And so what we're doing is now helping people overcome that Frankenstein system and evaluate what they have and streamline it and centralize things into one tool that can actually serve the needs of their practice, whether they're a solopreneur or somebody that has a team of 25 that's trying to do it, and there's even massive teams using this

storm systems. But we really focus on the small practices because they're the ones that are working 60, 80 hour weeks and frankly, not living healthy lives and not spending time with their loved ones. And so that's something that's near and dear to Jessica and I both is we want that life balance where we can really use our skills and our trades, but also have the flexibility and the freedom to love on our our loved ones and be healthy and take care of ourselves.

And we're bringing that to others here in the industry. Yeah. It sounds like you're helping accounting firms and bookkeeping firms create and own a machine that makes money for them instead of a job that they work 60 70 hours a week to do and burn themselves out. There's two things that you mentioned that I thought was was interesting.

You're I mean, on the surface, it sounds it sounds obvious that the reason why you should put systems in is just to create efficiency. Right. But you guys mentioned two things. One is the client experience. You're doing this to help the client experience. And the second is so that the the owner themselves doesn't have to feel like they are working this high stressful job.

Let's touch on the client experience. How does automation and software like this help with the client experience? Yeah, well I'll start and I'll talk from the client perspective. So I am not a tax professional. I do have an accounting degree from undergrad. But I chose to go into private accounting and then kind of got my way into healthcare at all the effects.

It was my turn. It led me to this moment where it actually helped the industry. So I'm grateful. But as a client of a practice who sent the traditional packet at the beginning of the tax season, and then I stuffed it on the desk. And, you know, to me, the dates are not important. There was no other communication happening.

All of a sudden, it would be like April 5th and I'd be like, crap, I gotta do my taxes. And so I would hustle and I would dump it on his lap, and then he would get it done. But I also knew he was working into 2 or 3 a.m. and then getting up and doing it all over again the next day at about 6 a.m..

And it didn't feel good to me as the client in that situation. Yeah. And it felt very rushed and non-communicative and it was difficult for me as a client, but I knew nothing different. And so when I met Jessica and she was showing me what she was doing, frankly, I was like, wow, this is how a client should be treated.

And so, Jessica, I would love for you to talk a little bit about your journey and where you're at today with how you have delivered your client experience, because it really is bar none. And a lot of people would love to hear it. Yeah. So openly. This is totally out in the open. I, you know, I am an ADHD entrepreneur, as they would say something that a lot of accountants have.

It's just a thing. I mean, I think that's why I was able to embrace the system so heavily because I had, you know, I had that hyper focus. I was really, really wanting to get this done. And I was experiencing a lot of pain points where someone would send me a referral for a client, and I had no way to get that referral into a system that would just nurture that relationship.

Until I got to the point where we would actually engage for service. So that was a really big pain point because I wanted to grow my business. I didn't want to be stagnant or continually lose people. In in the mix and everything. And I wanted clients to continue to refer people to me. So I had to come up with a system that would allow me to do that.

Also, you know, it's really, really easy to get overwhelmed during the tax season. You know, emails get missed if you're having to rely on what I did for the longest time was had an Excel kind of status spreadsheet and every time I completed a specific stage, that spreadsheet was given a date. Well, if I completed something and I had forgotten to do that, then I had to check in some other capacity, some other system to see.

Like what had I completed? Maybe? Did I notify this claim by email that I felt if all the return did I get all the documents I need when was the last time I asked them for documentation? And all of that just made the whole process really uncomfortable for me. But also my clients like, hey, I don't know where I am in the process.

And the easiest way for me to combat the constant what's going on, what's going on, what's going on? And then my feeling of like, have I dropped the ball? Am I getting everything that I need? Am I doing the right job being able to invest into? In my case with Tax Dohm, I was able to have status updates that people still appreciate even though they're automated.

Hey, I've gotten your documents. Thank you for giving them to me. I'm going to do. You can expect this from me next. Thank you for replying to to this open items list. I've got this and now I'm going to do this. And so there was a way for me now to take this like realistically, like the spiderweb of information that I was trying to decipher through and put it into like a linear, like a timeline.

It's now very clear cut. I can see where everything is in the process. I'm able to, to go to a, a client matter and see where I left off, what was done, what's to come when the last time the client was communicated with and it just again took this, this very uncomfortable way that I was doing things and allow me to work in in this similarity to, let's say, like an auto auto dealership.

Right. You've got the, the, the line of work that has to be performed allowed me to reach a standardization of service level that I was not able to do on my own because my brain, unfortunately, is just not that reliable. Hey there Adam here. From the Escaping the Accountants Trap podcast, I'd like to personally invite you to a free masterclass there.

We're conducting this Thursday called How to Start a CFO service. To register, just go to the CFO project.com and click Free Training at the top. See you there. So that helps with the client experience because they now know what to expect expect. And it helps you be a better service provider, which you know which means your client is happier.

I think one thing I would love to add to that, Adam, is, yeah, this process is linear standardization that she's created has allowed her clients to always know what is expected of them. And we talk about breadcrumb them to success. So that traditional way of delivering the packet with the engagement letter that is really dry and boring and not really friendly formatting.

And that's standard organizer. That's just a checklist that nobody looks at and, you know, not giving people clear instructions about what is expected of them. Timelines, deadlines. What does even means to, to to do the work that we're asking them to do? It just leaves so much uncertainty for your clients, which results in the inbound phone calls, the inbound emails and the time stuff that that is repeating the same answer again and again and again.

So we talk about that breadcrumbs. And being a proactive communicator with our clients and doing a whole like notifying them at the time that it matters of what they need to do. So you don't frontload everything and say, this is what it's going to look like over the next six weeks. This is overwhelming. Step one. We're going to sign the engagement letter and pay your your payment, your minimum payment.

Do. And then this is why we're doing it this way. And this is what you can expect from it. And the next step we're going to gather your documents. And here's how you do that. So it breaks it down and makes it logical to the end user of your client base or no matter what their education level is.

Yeah. No matter how old they are, how techie they are, it just makes it simple for them. And that's where people start getting their time back and start raising that client experience, because there's no questions. Everyone's just doing what's being asked of them, and you just follow up on a few things and do your returns, and it just simplifies things so much.

So workflows for tax pros. You guys I'm assuming you create these custom workflows for for accounting firms bookkeeping firms. Are there commonalities or sort of frameworks or pillars that all of these workflows have. Could you share some of those. Absolutely. So I will share. It was funny when we first started was doing one on one. And so I was, you know, as not a tax professional, I had to learn from people.

And one of the things I'm really good at is workflows and systems and seeing things and, and leveraging the tool, but as we went through it the first year, it was kind of teaching people how to create their automations. And then the our next year it was I saw all these commonalities. And so I was like, we could really create templates that are actually not like minor modifiable based on the specific needs of that practice that everybody's doing.

At the same, everyone has to onboard, everyone has to prepare the return, everyone has to offer it. And if we can leverage the tool and teach people what's possible and then help them modify from there to meet their specific needs, we can really change the game for a lot of these folks. And we have, we have a lot of our clients are coming back with results of like 200% increase in profit because they're they're not working any more than they were previously, but because we're working so much smarter and understand where their clients are at in the process in which they're going through, they're able to actually service more clients in the same amount

of hours. Some are saying, I don't want to work more, so I'm going to take those hours and just take it back for myself and keep the same amount of revenue and profit, because I'm happy there. But seeing returns like that for our clients is a game changer. Jessica and I have a dear friend who she actually was able to take her son on vacation in the middle of tax season, and she had never actually taken a day off of taxes and previously and middle of taxes.

And then we realized that. And then she was able to go and do something for her family. When she typically would just be heads down and making them second to second place. And that felt so good to her because she was organized and streamlined and had the systems doing the work for her. Interesting. So could could these systems help with delegating to people on your team if somebody wants to do that because all you.

Yeah, yeah. So one of the things that we really teach, like in our program is a lot of accountants have everything up here, right? They know especially solar practitioners. If you come from a background where you didn't work in a firm that had like a system of checks and balances, I think that's a good way for a lot of people who are getting into this business.

That's what they're coming from. They are maybe starting from from nothing or came from a firm that was not that organized. And so they have a system in their head and they know well, in order for me to file and prepare, you know, tap return, I know that I know that I am going to follow somewhat of a standardized, you know, methodology when you get into the realm of now taking everything out of your head and putting it onto a piece of paper, per se, and expanding it to the point where we're not looking at like the big picture.

We're getting as as granular as you can, can really get down to, you know, in, let's say, your intake process. Do we who is responsible for reviewing that intake when that intake is reviewed, then who is responsible? Like what's the next step? Are we going to place a phone call to the client, send an email to the client?

Are we going to create a task internally for someone to do those things? So you get really, really specific on all of the stages, all the items, everything that goes together with taking that client from intake to finalize return and when you have all these different steps, you can see, especially as the firm owner, do I really need to be the one to do this?

Do I need to be the one to call and schedule the appointment? I could make that a booking link. Do I need to be the one to follow up with the client for these documents? I could schedule that or ask my assistant to jump in and be the one to follow up that person. So it absolutely does help to be able to identify areas where you can delegate.

Because I'm a terrible delegator. But if I didn't look at the work that I was performing that nitty gritty, I would think, well, I have to do it all. I have to do this, I have to do that, and I'm not. I wasn't able to identify those points that didn't really need me to do it, and I was allowing other people who are there to support me to step in and really do those things for me.

So it's been been beneficial because I'm only in the pieces that I need to actually be in. Yeah. So I think, oh, sorry, I was just going to add to that the the power of utilizing a tool to help you in that too, is it? It doesn't result in having to communicate to that team member that it's time for them to take action.

The system automatically can assign and all that work to them. So they come in and they have their task of to do that are, you know, based on exactly where that individual client is at in your process. So they're not having to always be watching things and monitoring things. I think in a lot of practices there's like tracking of the folder and where the folders at or tracking on that spreadsheet, like who did this or didn't do this and then like the follow up, it all is just triggering things out.

Automatic and assigning them to the proper people. And that's when you start leveraging those tools to that degree. It takes off amount like huge amounts of management time, but also administrative time for your team members not having to go out and follow up on that signature document every day to see if it got signed in the other tool.

It's all right there, and we'll notify them when it's time to do the next step. Interesting. So it sounds like you're the accountants able to stay in control over the work product without being the bottleneck themselves. They can feel confident that things are getting done that they may not have to. They're not they're not the bottleneck. All right.

So I mean, this is a fascinating conversation. We're almost out of time. But if somebody listening is thinking, I need this especially going into, you know, the next tax season, where do they go. Great question. So we have a website where they can start learning more about me and Jessica and all of the services that we do offer.

It's workflows for tax pros.com okay. And they can go to that page and learn a lot about us on that page. They will find an invitation to join our free Facebook group. If they would like to come and hang out with us. We have a Facebook group that is called Tax Pros Automation and Workflows. And in that group there's lots of, collaboration amongst the colleagues where if somebody is having a question about a specific, topic or scenario that they're facing, they'll come in and ask questions.

We're offering trainings in there every week. We do free trainings about things you need to be thinking about, similar to the conversation we've had today, how to communicate better with your clients, how to get improve your cash flow in your practice using automation. But we're talking about all things automation in there now. We are lovers of tax stone.

So if you are curious about tax, it's a fantastic place to come and learn more about the tool we offer demos. We have all kinds of things in there, so those are excellent resources for anybody that's thinking, I want to take my now analog or Frankenstein practice and turn it into a streamlined, automated virtual practice and still give an amazing client experience, even to my 85 year old.

You know, Auntie, that I've been serving for the last 25 years. You can do that. And there's such opportunity in, automation to customize it based on your clients, and still get that excellent experience. So, Jeff, do you have anything you wanted to add? I just had to say one of the things that really I think has set me and Jamie apart from, you know, other people who are doing things similar to We are Jamie now are so focused not just on, you know, the client and accountant experience, but her and I come together and we bring the, the brain of the system experts, that expertise that Jamie has.

And then actually working accountant brain like in the trenches knowing what needs to be done to perform these services. I have a very kind of wide area of pieces in this industry that I've been in, you know, bookkeeping, payroll, right up accounting, tax prep, planning, resolution work. There's a broad kind of area of expertise I've been able to experience here.

And so I have different areas that Jamie and I come in together. And I say, well, this is the service that people want to perform. This is the result. And we take that and we work that through to a workflow that could accommodate planning for, let's say as corporations, we also have resolution, you know, tax analysis, tax resolution, stuff like that.

It's it's based off actual accounting, working accounting experience. And not just this is how we think it needs to be done. There's there's there's it is pride. Yeah. It's not theory. It's tried. It's tested. It's it's actually, you know, the bulk of the workflows that that I'm releasing are ones that I've worked on my own. I, I've had an idea.

Oh, I think I need to accomplish that goal, I create it, I see if it works. And then if it works, I say, hey, Jamie, we've got a new opportunity here to, you know, offer to our members. So there's just lots of R&D that just comes from literally seeing issues within my own practice and wanting to find a solution for it, because I know I'm not the only one experiencing it.

Yeah. That's that's so important. Excellent. Well, Jessica and Jamie, thank you so much for being here. We'll put on for good. Actually, we'll put the, your website workflows for tax pros.com in our show notes. So everybody check that out. Everyone listening or watching. Thank you so much for spending the last few minutes with us as we discussed how to escape the accountant trap.

Bye for now.