Welcome to the Escaping the Accountants Trap podcast. It's a podcast to help accountants, CPAs and bookkeepers escape what we call the accountants trap. It's where accountants are not getting paid for their value, and are forced to work long hours with high demanding clients with little pay. Well, how do you escape the trap? And one way is the topic of today's episode, and that's by looking at the difference between the life of an accountant or bookkeeper versus the life of a CFO business advisor.

To help me with the discussion, I've invited Jeff Prager, the co-founder of the CFO project. Jeff, welcome to the show. Hey, Adam. Glad to be here. It's always fun. Yeah. So I'm excited about the topic of this, this episode, because a lot of accountants and bookkeepers that we talked to, they want to become an advisor or CFO, but they're really not sure how their day to day life will change.

And that could be scary for a lot of accountants and bookkeepers who've been doing a certain thing for a long time. So let's just start off by saying you've made the transition. What was the biggest difference when you went from being an accountant to transitioning to an advisor? Maybe we start with a little background. I worked for a big eight firm in the beginning of my career.

And then I went into industry. And then, based on my experience in industry, plus, that was the big eight firm, which is now part of the big four. I was able to see what business owners really wanted. And first of all, let, let let's talk about it. When you work with individual, let's say in the tax practice, because bookkeeping doesn't really happen in, for personal books.

But, when you're working with businesses, you're, you're not giving them what they want. Now they need bookkeeping, they need taxes. And that's usually our expertise. But do they want it? And the reason, you know, they don't want it is because the way they react to your request, you give them information. That's true. Right. It's always at their convenience.

And and like taxes. April 14th, they come in with all their books, and you and go, you could get it done by tomorrow. And don't realize that there's 85 other people trying to do the same thing. Or the other thing I found is if they have a tax problem, a notice from the IRS, the last thing they do on Friday is go, oh, I got to get this off my desk.

And then it becomes your problem and you spend your whole weekend researching the problem. And so your time, your freedom is not your own. So after working in industry, I set up my practice immediately to focus on the future of the business versus the past. Okay. However, however, I got caught in a conundrum. Is because of my tax background and accounting background.

People would say would you review my return? And inevitably I found mistakes. And the question is why? Because these guys are smart. They're not stupid people. Accountants are smart people, but they don't have time to really understand the business, the goals and the underlying reason why numbers are where they are. And because of that they made mistakes.

So then I had to hire a tax partner to handle the, the preparation of the taxes. I knew what should go in. I knew what should come out. But that putting it on paper and okay I'm going to date myself. We started my career doing it on by hand. Then we went to computer tax and you know, which was a service bureau.

And I mean, it was just like, oh my God, every year is changing. This is just transient knowledge. I don't need that kind of knowledge. Planning distracted you from doing what you wanted, which is helping the business grow. Right? Exactly. And and so it became obvious, painfully obvious to me, working on both sides of the fence, that what business owners want is a path to a better life.

Yeah. However you define that, whether it's defined in business terms, personal terms, they want a better life period, and they don't want to be bothered with being inundated with information that they can't possibly understand. Yeah. And care to understand or care to understand. That's a great point, Adam. I mean, how many business owners do you know wake up at three in the morning going, God, I wish I had better books, right?

I don't. They don't. It's not a concern. It's not a priority. And because of their lack of knowledge, I mean, think about it. In the American system, we do not learn about money in our educational system. We don't. True. Right. So the minute you bring it up, you're bringing up a basically a taboo subject. Yeah. Think about the biggest causes.

One of the biggest causes of divorce. It's usually about money. Yeah. The spouses aren't on the same page, nor do they know how to discuss it. So why spend your time doing that? And then here's the worst part. You don't have control of your time anymore. You you went out in business for yourself, for freedom, for money, for lack, for lower stress level.

Only to find out you got the reverse. Now you have 800 bosses. Or how many tax returns you're doing, or bookkeeping clients you're serving or accounting clients. You now have 800 bosses all demanding everything right now. Yeah. And it's just not a way to live in. I recognize that in early in my career that this is not the lifestyle I want.

And the question became I love what I do. I really do. That's why I'm still doing it. But how do I help business owners? Not how do I help them comply with the law? Which is fickle, as everyone knows. That's true. Every year it's changing. You're spending your time learning tax code. It should have been settled years ago.

All right. So. So far, I've heard two things that I think are so important. One, you wanted to you valued work life balance way more. And which is why you switched to advisory services rather than just compliance. And two, you found that selling or communicating business advisory services is ways easier to business owners than trying to convince them to hire you just for taxes.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Because I want it. The number one. They want it. But now you control the dialog instead of them. Yeah. And you control your time. And and I just keep thinking, like again, going back to when I first opened my practice was, April 15th, driving to downtown Denver at 11:00 at night, trying to get our stuff postmarked by 12.

And I'd go, why this is so stupid. This what? I'm doing this because people didn't give me their information. Yeah. And do you want to control it, or do you want them like you want other people controlling your life and lifestyle? But you made a great point. Yeah. It's like, do we live to work or work to live?

Yeah. It's a huge question that you have to ask yourself in this profession. Yeah, that's true. And you could also look at it from your the business owner standpoint. They want somebody in their lives that helps them not. They want the financial person in their lives in the area where they are insecure. Usually they want that person to help them figure out how to have a better business, because that's way more important to them than just having the financial person record the past.

Oh, and beyond that, think about this when you come to talk to them, which conversation do they appreciate and look forward to? Yeah. How many people look forward to the tax conversation? Yeah. Or the bookkeeping? Right. Or even going over the financials. That's right. They don't look forward to it. But my clients, when I see them, they're looking forward to it.

Yeah. You know, hey, let's get a cup of coffee. Let's have lunch. By the way, you have time now to do that. Right. I mean, going to the dentist is obviously needed, but if I, if my dentist, every time I went, sat down with me after they cleaned my teeth and reviewed the the status of my teeth, and they sat down with me and reviewed all the dental stats, and it took 30 minutes and said, well, this tooth over here is, you know, and talking in dentistry jargon, I would not want to go back to that dentist.

And that's the same experience that I think a lot of business owners have with their accountant or a bookkeeper, and they don't they don't like that conversation. But to your point, if all of a sudden the conversation shifted from talking about the numbers to talking about how to grow the business, something that business owner cares about, then they'll value you.

And that conversation way more. Hey there. Adam here from the Escaping the Accountants Trap podcast. I'd like to personally invite you to a free masterclass that we're conducting this Thursday called How to Start a CFO service. To register, just go to the CFO Project Comm and click Free Training at the top. See you then. Without a doubt, Ian, you make us.

And this is what I love best about being a CFO. You are making a significant impact on their lives. Yeah, I just got invited to my first client's 80th birthday party. Oh, my gosh. All right. And and we haven't worked together. I mean, I mean, I helped him do make a lot of money over the course of when we worked together.

And he still calls me and invites me to his personal, you know, birthday parties and events. And it's like I get these calls all the time. I had a client, a few about six months ago, said Jeff. We'd love to. It was a husband and wife business. And they go, we'd love to have lunch with you.

And I said, why? What's up? And they go, well, because of you, we survive Covid. Wow. Because of the advice you gave us. And we just want to have lunch and say hello. Yeah. I've never had that with the tax client. Yeah. Well that's true. I just last year during during the Christmas, the one of my clients or our long term clients who's based in New York and I'm in Florida just for anybody that she had her team researched the most expensive restaurant here in Saint Augustine.

And she sent me a $350 gift card for that restaurant because with a note that says that she could not run her business without me. And she values me so much. I mean, oh, yeah. I mean, not to one up you, but I, I had a client. Just just before I kind of retired out of practice practicing, send my firm a $20,000 bonus.

What? Yeah. Just out of the clear. And we were building them top rates. Building them top rates. And he sent us a $20,000 bonus and said, Jeff, split this among your people. Take the majority of it. I good, but but I appreciate how much you've helped me this year. Wow. And by the way, I helped to make a lot of money, obviously.

I'm sure, I'm sure, but but this is the impact part. This is the rewarding side of it. It's not just about the money. At least in my mind. It's about the impact you make. Yeah. And if you're going to make a significant impact, if you want to feel value for what you're doing being a CFO, hey, it doesn't have the risk of being a compliance person.

You you don't have the risk. You don't have the, the deadlines. I mean, it's a better life, but more importantly, more importantly than the money, even it because you get paid a lot more to be a CFO. I mean, I could have one client as a CFO client that would make up for close to six, 700 tax clients.

Wow. I mean, think about that and then think about, you know, the impact. You're happy. I mean, that to me is the biggest joy when I made a difference in somebody's life. Yeah. You're making a difference in the business owners lives. The business owners families lives. Because now the business owner has a peace of mind, which you can't really put a dollar value on that they're now present with their families.

They're present with their employees. And you're having a bigger impact on the employees lives because the business is going to stay in business and hopefully be able to afford more people and more salaries. Right. And you're with them for a much longer period of time. My longest client was over 25 years. Yeah. Before I've gotten rid of all my clients to do this, you know, full time.

But over 25 years, how many people have clients that are going to last 25 years? Yeah. You can get on and I'll tell you about cheap client. I paid this guy, paid me a premium. Yeah. And you could get off that marketing roller coaster where you're like, you're you're searching for clients. You get a bunch of clients, and then you're servicing the clients, but then your clients leave, and then you have to do the whole thing.

All that. That's like being a fractional CFO, where you go in and you do a project, you leave. Now you were really busy. Now you have no business, so you have to go out and get more business. I mean, being a CFO, it really cut down my marketing time. Yeah, let's let's face it, we accountants do not like marketing for the most part.

Yeah. Or say, or sales. Right? Yeah. And when you have a steady, if you will, stream of clients that are on retainers year after year. Think about all the time I didn't have to waste all the nights going to functions and stuff like that just to get clients. Yeah. And being a CFO, you don't have a revolving door of clients where they go to the next cheapest person and they have no idea what you do and what value you have.

Yeah. Absolutely. And I'm glad you brought up the fractional CFO because that that's a big that's a big topic in our in our world is fractional versus what we call a CFO advisory service. What we call it is more of a product test service where you're you're telling the client, this is what I'm going to provide to you, and here's why I'm going to do it, and here's exactly how much is going to cost.

And we're going to meet once a month. And I'm going to show you exactly what's going on in your business. And I'm going to give you a plan that's a product as CFO, because you have the benefit of a scalable product, while the benefit of still calling it a service and charging for it because you're you're you're providing so much value versus what you said were a fractional CFO or you come in and do a job and leave, and every client is a customized engagement.

And that is not scalable. It's the opposite of scalability. And can't really take on that many of those clients. Just wanted to clear that up and and are selling process is so much easier. That's right. Because what we say is we're going to figure out what's working and what's not in your business. And we will address that as opposed to saying, oh, I could do a forecast, I could do a budget, I could do a loan packaging, I could do a tax return, I could do bookkeeping.

And and now the client's gone, oh my God, I don't know what I want, so I'm not going to pick anything. Yeah. So so the sales process is it's a it's just a few words actually. Yeah. So going back to sort of the premise of the episode in, in your experience working with a lot of accountants and bookkeepers, what are like maybe the top 2 or 3 changes that they've seen personally when they've made the shift from compliance to advisory?

Oh, daily we get people thanking us for joining our group. It comes down to I finally have control of my life. I'm spending more time with my family, with my friends. I'm making more money with less effort. We had one member who, And correct me if I'm wrong on this. Adam. She cut out 75% of her work and made 50% more net profit.

That's right. That was Becky. Yeah. Yeah. Becky. Yeah, that's who I'm talking about. And and but we get those kinds of people that embrace the program. Yeah. Are usually very successful and see a huge change in their lifestyle. Yeah. And and and because it's more like a recipe, all you got to do is connect the dots, if you will, follow the recipe and you're going to get a cake.

It makes it so much easier. And you're not constantly worried about, you know, getting more clients and, I mean, your marketing effort goes down, your sales effort goes down, your free time goes up, your your revenue goes up. And believe it or not, your your peace of mind, your, stability is actually increased. That's right. And so, you know, you're not staying up at night thinking about, oh my God, this guy just got attacked by the IRS.

And I got to figure out how I'm going to answer the IRS. And I mean, it's not just a problem after a problem anymore. You're not putting out fires every day. Yeah. So, yeah, there's a huge difference in providing CFO services. There is a little bit of a mindset shift in that you're guiding a client. You're you're an expert at figuring out what's working and what's not.

Which we do through a scorecard. It's very easy to do takes about 20 minutes. And and then just going in and saying, this is what I've noticed. Are you noticing the same thing? Yeah. Okay. What are we going to do about it? And it becomes a conversation a brainstorming conversation. Yeah. You're not you don't have to have all the answers.

We don't we don't. The experts in their clients business. Right? They are. They're the expert in the business. Your job is to pull it out of them. That's right. And that's a whole lot easier. And less liability because there is no right answer. There's no wrong answer. There's nobody looking over your shoulder second guessing you from the outside.

Yeah, it's a fun way to live. Yeah. And, you know, this has been a fantastic conversation. And, you know, we're. Our time is almost up. Is there any last, last parting advice you would give to somebody that's thinking about transitioning from accounting or bookkeeping to advisory services? Yeah. What are you waiting for? You're right. I, I don't get it.

If you don't like where you are, then why are you still doing it? Why are you feeling trapped in. Which is the title is The Captain's Trap. Why do you feel trapped? But why not do something about it and get out of the trap? Yeah, I did, and and hundreds of other people are doing it every day. It's time to get control and enjoy life again.

So I agree. That's it. Just don't do it. Just a shameless plug. Jeff and I, every Thursday do a lot. A free training call, how to start a CFO service. So if you're interested, this is something that you may be thinking about. You know, like, I just want to understand exactly what this is, what this entails, and how we can help in the CFO project.

Check out our training. Just go to the CFO project.com. At the very top. It just says free trial. Click that and then sign up for the next Thursday. Training. We do it every Thursday. And, except when Thursday falls on, a major holiday. But check it out. Jeff, thank you so much. I love coming here. Thank you Adam.

And to everyone listening or watching. Thank you so much for spending the last few minutes with us as we discussed how to escape the accountant trap. Bye for now.