Welcome to the CFO project podcast. Today we're talking all about how to grow a successful CFO advisory firm to help me with the discussion, I've invited Rob Tokay. He's a member of the CFO project, but more importantly, he is a successful CFO advisory practice owner.

Rob, welcome to the show. Yeah, so I'm really excited to meet with you.

I'm I always enjoy meeting with fellow members of the CFO project. But, you know, you're you've had unbelievable success in your CFO advisory firm. But before we get into all that, tell us a little bit about you.

Okay. Excellent. Well. So. Okay. Wow. This is. I have so many questions here. So when you were a full time CFO and then you bought, essentially bought into the roofing company and was their CFO, and now you offer CFO services to small businesses, small, medium sized businesses.

What is the difference? Would you say, between full time CFO work versus advisory on a, you know, an outsourced or part time or productized basis?

Yeah.

Yeah. So it is. I tell people this all the time. I feel like. And you confirm it essentially. But the biggest difference is that when you are a full time CFO or even a fractional CFO, you are kind of doing a job in the business. Whereas, you know, our version of advisory, CFO, advisory, you're advising or guiding, you're not actually doing anything, which means you can take on other clients because you have a lot more free time.

Okay. So when so you were a CPA, you you, became a full time CFO, and now you have a firm, called Key Performance Consultants in Pittsburgh, and you do a mix of tax, bookkeeping and CFO.

So what has been the

revenue mix of percentage wise between bookkeeping, tax and advisory, you know, for the past couple of years, and I'm assuming the advisory part is grown.

Wow. And you're like three years ago. What was it? What would you say? Zero. Okay.

Yeah. And then and and then in 28, so 2023, you didn't have any CFO class 2024, you joined the CFO project. And then at the end of 2024, you grew your CFO practice. Yeah, but by live, I mean, I did.

Okay.

Wow. That's amazing. So what what would you what would you attribute the success to in terms of being able to attract clients and, and charging them the, the fees that you're charging them, which, by the way, how much are you charging for CFO Advisory services?

Okay. Per client per month okay. So so you're charging I mean that's a that's significant 3000 3500. That's amazing. The average member of the CFO project charges around 2000. So you're way above average. So what do you attribute your success to? You grew 300% from 20 2324. And now you've grown. You've basically exceeded that. I mean, we're recording this in May of 2025.

You've already exceeded all of 2024 in terms of revenue this year. What do you attribute that to?

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Totally. Yeah.

Right? Yeah. Yeah, I agree, I also think I think that that because of your background, you come across as a business. As a business advisor rather than an accountant. And I think there's a huge difference there. Business. When you when you talk to a business owner, they want an advisor, they want somebody who knows the numbers to help them have a better future, rather than somebody who knows the numbers and says, well, I could track your numbers better than the last person or your current person.

They don't really care about that. And so what you come across is just different.

Right.

Right. That's right.

Yeah.

Totally. I think that's a very good example. I mean, revenue is a lagging indicator, people. Yeah. You give your client the PNL and it's like, oh, this is what revenue happened last month. If I was the business, or I'd be way more concerned about what's going to happen with revenue next month and two months from now and three months from now, what are the leading indicators, the the drivers, the what are the influencers that make that up?

Yeah.

Totally.

Yeah.

So, Rob, let me ask you this. What would you say to somebody that's an accountant or bookkeeper now? And they would like they they would like to maybe offer advisory, but they just don't feel that they have the necessary background or they don't have the experience, or they've only been an accountant. Well, and they may be experiencing some sort of imposter syndrome.

What would you say to them?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. You've hit the nail on the head. You know, a lot of bookkeepers and self-employed accountants forget that they. You also own a business. So you do have experience owning a business. But at the same time, even if you're an employed accountant, the the idea that you understand and can read numbers, the financials, I mean, accounting is literally the language of business and, and businesses live and die off of, of a financial number, which is cash flow, as you mentioned.

And, and you already understand that. So you have a giant leg up to help business owners. So you can do this.

Yeah.

Yeah. Roofing business. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I love that. You're right. You have to be inquisitive. And you have to be curious. And then. And then once you. Once you dig. Once you're asking all these, you're asking all these questions, and you're digging and you're finding these answers, then you can relate them to the numbers and then relate that to what you want.

Your client to do to improve the future. And I mean, that's that's really the name of the game. And it's not it's not. And it's simple but not easy to do. But it's it is kind of simple.

Yeah. I think that's key. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I agree with you. I having that desire to help business owners that and that's step one. You have to have that desire.

you have a lot of clients CFO clients and you I think you said a CFO now represents like 78% of your business or something. Do you do you have staff to help you?

What does that look like?

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah. You know, like I say,

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. The quality of the work. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And so the the. What do you look for in an employee to come on, or even the partner that you just mentioned? What types of a qualities do you look for in somebody when you get on your team.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah I, I agree I, I had I think aptitude is huge but I think attitude is even more important because excuse me if you teach, if you have somebody that has some sort of accounting background and they understand the numbers, but they have the right and they may not have the most experience as long as they have the right attitude.

I think they have the soft skills that like empathy and listening. And then like you said, they carry curiosity and and wanting the desire to help business owners. That's going to that's going to shine through to a client way more than somebody that that has all the acronyms after their name. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because client, you know, business owners, they a lot of people, especially a lot of accountants I've talked to and they think about offering CFO.

They think that they have to be like, you know, Microsoft's CFO level and be able to talk like, like a financial expert. And and that does not resonate at all the business owners at all. The more you talk like an accountant, the less likelihood that you will succeed as a CFO. You have to be able to talk like a human.

In English, yeah, right.

Yeah.

Right, right.

It's like going to the dentist and the dentist. Just reading off the chart in dental jargon and saying, all right, you're on your way. And it's like, wait, hold on. What does that mean? Just put it in, like, plain language. What does that mean? What do I need to do? Yeah. And clients love that way more.

Yeah.

Yes.

Totally.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah I love that. What you just said that people care way more about how you make them feel than what you know, and that's totally true.

Well, we talked about the what? You know, people don't care about what you know, as much as I care about how you make them feel. Yes.

Yeah. Right.

Yes.

Yeah. People. People like. Because you're right. Business ownership is hard. It's lonely. It's overwhelming. A lot of people get in a business because they're an expert at what they do. Like a plumber, sorts of plumbing business, a dentist, or it's a dental business. And therefore, although they're good at their craft, they're not necessarily good at numbers and all that's overwhelming to them.

And if it if somebody like, like you or like all of us comes along and just says, I'm going to be your go to financial guide, I'm going to sort of metaphorically put my arm around your shoulder, and we are going to run your business together. They love that because it's this peace of mind that they're that we're selling.

And that's right.

Right. Totally. That's right, that's right.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that, that in and of itself. Well, we'll get clients all day long and be able to charge them a lot of money because even you're charging 3000 a month, which is higher than the average, which is great, three times 12 is 36,000. Think about the average business owner that's doing, let's say, $2 million a year.

Revenue 36,000 is not that much money to them. They're paying part time employees sometimes more than that. So we have to put it in perspective. It may be a lot to us, but it's not a lot to legitimate business owners. Yeah that's right, that's right.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, Rob, this has been a fantastic conversation. I can't believe the the time. Time's almost up.

Is there any last last words of advice you would give to somebody that's on the fence about offering advisory?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Totally. Yeah. There's so much need out there compared to the to the supply. I mean, this is off the charts. There could be 100 times number of CFO advisors out there and still wouldn't, because I think that Pittsburgh there has to be. What do you guess like a half a million businesses just in that one. I mean that's that that's a lot of businesses.

All right. Well, Rob, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. Yeah, I also any time, any time, I'd love to have you back or there's more it I would love to discuss. So everybody listening. Thank you so much for listening or watching. And if you haven't already, make sure you sign up for our five minute weekly email where we send every Wednesday you practical tips just for accountants and bookkeepers and CFOs to escape the accountants trap.

So just go to the CFO project.com/newsletter. See you next time on the CFO project podcast.