Welcome to the Escaping the Accountants Trap podcast. It's a podcast to help accountants, CPAs and bookkeepers escape what we call the accountants trap. It's where accountants are not getting paid for their value, and are forced to work long hours with high, demanding clients with little pay. Well, how do you escape the trap? One way is the topic of today's episode, and that's by differentiating yourself as an accountant or bookkeeper that can work with multi-currency clients.

To help me with the discussion, I've invited Esther Karp, the founder of Copy Books, a QuickBooks training company for accountants and bookkeepers that specializes in multi-currency. Esther, welcome to the show. Thank you. Adam, it's great to be here. So this is a very niche topic, but I think it's very timely, especially with our podcast, because we want to help accountants and bookkeepers escape the accountants trap where they're not seen as this commoditized service where everybody does the same thing.

And what you train on, what you train accountants and bookkeepers to do is essentially, differentiate themselves. And the way you do that is through multi currency. So can you give us a little bit of background on that and why you got into this? Sure. It's something I fell into actually. Adam and I'm not proud of it, but here I am.

I think I mentioned earlier that I started off life as a mathematician. Yeah. So I got my bachelor's degree in actuarial science and math. Oh, wow. Yeah. And then what happened was, my husband at the time, that's that's so, you know, interesting story there, but my husband at the time decided to leave law and go into the kosher restaurant business, which I thought was a horrible idea at the time.

And I still think so today. But he's no longer in that business, and he's no longer my husband. Okay, I have another one. I have a different one. All right. Who's much better anyway? So but the thing is that when we got into that business, I realized, wow, we need we need accounting software, bookkeeping software. And I had an MBA, so I understood accounting.

But I, you know, I didn't know about all these things that small businesses needed to know in terms of compliance and all that jazz. So that's how I kind of fell into the world of QuickBooks. And then what happened was my clients were getting larger and larger and larger with more and more complex needs. Eventually, in the early 2000s, Intuit Canada introduced a multi-currency functionality in what we now refer to as QuickBooks desktop.

A few years later into it, US did followed suit the same way. And then of course, you know, QuickBooks online and so on. So what happened was as you have larger and larger clients, especially, on this side of the, Canada US border, they do a lot of multinational business. So the, multi-currency functionality is really, really important to them.

And their, they recognize the value of the knowledge that I am part and the experience that I can provide to them. So all of a sudden, I'm not a commodity anymore. I'm. I'm specialized. I got a niche. So. And the other thing is that, it's sad to say, but the tech support from into it was not familiar with the multi-currency functionality at all.

So oftentimes I would be teaching them stuff. So in any case what happens then is that you've got these larger clients who are, less price sensitive to start with. And then they have these really important needs. I mean, I have this one clients got like two dozen currencies they have to track, and they can't just go to any Joe Schmo bookkeeper.

They need to understand it. And generally, these clients have their own bookkeeping or accountant department. So they need to be trained properly and get their books into shape and they're willing to pay for it. Really. Okay. Very interesting. So are you are you yourself somebody that goes in to these clients and train them, or do you do the books for them?

And what do you recommend our listeners do? Well, it I'm going to have to say it depends. So what I've done both I've gone in and trained I've also gone in and done the books, but that isn't really my my jam anymore. I'm not really a bookkeeper anymore. I'm more interested in training others to be self-sustaining or that whole teacher guide a fish thing, right?

Yeah. So, I mean, that's my thing. Now, if if you have a bookkeeping firm where you are doing the books, where you are doing monthly books and whatnot, and you want to offer that as, as, a specialized skill that maybe the next bookkeepers don't have, then. Yeah, go ahead. But frankly, for me, you know, getting older as I am, I just want to teach people and impart the knowledge.

Okay. So let's let's start with attracting clients. So how does somebody who wants to say that I'm, I'm niching down and multi-currency clients. How do they go about getting clients. That's a great question. I can tell you how I've done it. Okay. And so the thing was that, I mean, I've written a lot of articles before into it and insightful accountant and I've done a lot of speaking at various, at various, conferences.

I'm also, I also do a lot of training for into it. So my name is on a lot of their training materials, but frankly, I think that they should be advertising themselves as such as well. And they could become, let's say, if somebody in, let's say, Canada and they want to be a US pro advisor, then they should become a US pro advisor and learn all the ins and outs of, of QuickBooks.

But also, they should advertise on their site that they do international and multi-currency and that kind of stuff. There there's also certifications, in, in the various countries that QuickBooks operates in. So for instance, I have Pro Advisor certification in Canada, the U.S and the UK. I also have Pro Advisor certification in what they call the International or RW rest of world editions of QuickBooks.

So there are ways of getting your name out there and also social media, at which, by the way, I think I think it's social media. I'm just horrible at it. But the thing is that I'm in enough groups where somebody says, hey, I need somebody that can handle multiple currencies, and inevitably somebody will say, well, you got to speak to Esther.

So I need other people to be Esther because I can't be everywhere. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, essentially, if you get if you niche down and become known as the go to person in this area, you're going to be sought out, right? And and there's only so much me to go around. Right. And essentially that's how you build your business.

It is it is. So clients that need clients that need multi-currency experts such as yourself, what do they look like? Wow. So, I hate to say it depends, but I'm going to say it again. Yeah. So in in Canada, for instance, you can have, a relatively small company dealing in more than one currency, Canadian, US dollars.

Perfect example. Okay, okay. And, and because a lot of, I mean, let's, let's face it, like 80% of our population is within 200 miles of the US border. So we're very, very aware of what's going on in the U.S. And you're based in Canada just for. Yes, I'm based Toronto. Yeah, I am but I go to the States a lot.

In any case, so, I mean, it, it could be even small companies. But generally speaking, when you're talking with somebody, let's say in the U.S, it's generally the larger companies that are all of a sudden aware of what's going on beyond their borders, and that they have to price their various products and widgets in euros or yen or Aussie dollars or Canadian dollars or whatever.

So it's generally larger companies. I can't really say that there's a specific industry or vertical, because this type of thing traverses all kinds of industries. And when you say larger clients like revenue wise, what would you say? Oh, revenue wise, definitely in the millions probably, you know, 10 million and above could be lower, but definitely in the millions.

Okay. And those those are the clients that that aren't going to be nickel and diming you. Right. First. True. You're fees right. That is true. And plus you you said something other earlier that was interesting. You said that these clients usually have accounting staff. They they just need expertise. And essentially that's how you differentiate yourself from other accountants and bookkeepers is instead of providing the compliance or tax or transactional work, you're providing something different, which is training to their staff on how to deal with multinational currencies.

That is true. Adam. And in fact, something else that I do is after let's, let's say oftentimes a client will come to me, it doesn't matter how large they are, they'll come to me and they've totally messed up multiple currencies. They just have because it was misused, underused, abused, whatever you want to call it. It was used improperly.

And so now their reports are just garbage. Okay. So one of the things I do obviously is identify the problem, fix it and teach them how to keep it from happening again. But another thing that I do is offer them an access level agreement where I say, okay, well, based on what it is that I can do for you, I will charge you X dollars a month for me to come in.

I'm not tracking my time. You don't have to watch the clock, and I will just answer any questions and have any meetings that we need in order to keep your books clean and accurate. That was actually going to be my next question. So once you have a lead, somebody that needs a business that needs this, how do you price your services or training?

And so essentially, you sounds like you have a couple different options for them. That's right. I mean I don't like to track time, I really don't. And and frankly, offering somebody, a billable hour rate. Is it, it's it's a little crazy because number one, they watch the clock and then they say, well, can I get somebody cheaper?

And if somebody starts asking me right away what I charge, they're not my client. It's not, you know, I back away, say, thanks very much, but, you know, I can probably apply to a lot of, so, but once I've had a chance to look at their books and I see how complex their needs can be and how what value I bring to the table, then I'll say, okay, fine, I will I mean, every client has a different price.

Every every client has a different price for the access level agreement based on what I've seen. You know, we sign non-disclosure first, obviously. Yes. So and so because you're not charging by the hour, you're essentially value pricing. So you charge a flat fee per month or per engagement. Yeah. What I've been doing is when somebody comes to me, it's generally an acute problem.

They they need help and they need it quickly, and it's major. So then I do the whole value pricing thing where I offer somebody a platinum, gold or silver level of service to get them where they need to be. Once we sign that and we do it, we we complete that project. I could walk away, you know, because I used to say that I was involved in serial monogamy because I would and I don't mean my own marriages.

I because there's only two of them. But I mean that I, you know, I come in, I'm I'm with you. I'm, I'm, I'm holding your hand and then, you know, I walk away and for the next one and so on and so on. But what I learned was that's leaving money on the table. And oftentimes they'll come back to me months later saying, oh, you know, we did something wrong and we don't know what we did.

So it's it's better for me and for them to offer them ongoing services at X dollars a month. And, and they're not worried about they know what it's going to cost, but they also know that they're going to have clean books. Yeah. I mean, it's cheaper to retain a client than it is to get a to get a new one.

Yes, it is right for a long time to figure that one out. By the way. So we you know, you've mentioned QuickBooks desktop a lot. What if the client has a different accounting package? Well, if they're using QuickBooks online, I definitely can help them with that, that's for sure. In fact, I think I mentioned earlier, I don't know if we were already recording that.

I've written a book of multi-currency and QuickBooks desktop, and I did that first because it was it is was a more stable product. The feature wasn't going to change, however, I did see changes recently with, QuickBooks online, so I held off on that. But now I'm working on multi-currency in QuickBooks online, that book as well. So, when I first started my business, I thought, oh, I'm going to do this software and that software.

And at the time there was only QuickBooks. What we now refer to as QuickBooks desktop being offered buy into it. So, I realized after a while that it made no sense for me to diversify into all these different financial management software packages because there was so much business from QuickBooks. There just was. And then Qvo QuickBooks online came out, and I just got more business than I can handle, really.

Okay. And the sort of side note, what what is the future of QuickBooks? I mean, obviously, I heard a stat that said that some 80% of all businesses use QuickBooks. Where where is QuickBooks are Intuit going and are they going to abandon their desktop sometime in the near future and commit to online? Do you have any thoughts on that?

So I, I don't have a crystal ball. I don't I can just tell you what I think. Okay. I think that QuickBooks, what we now refer to as QuickBooks desktop, still has several years of life in it. Especially I think eventually there will be just the enterprise version. That's my guess. I don't know how how long that's going to stick around, but certainly for, you know, for, quite a long time, until there's feature parity with QuickBooks online advanced.

And it's just not there yet. I mean, I, sadly, I have a lot of clients that I've set up in the past so beautifully that a they don't need me again and be there to beautifully set up to move to QuickBooks online. Got it. Interesting. Okay, I remember my first, in college, I had a job and the owner asked me to do there because I was an accounting major, and she asked me to do the books.

And so I set up QuickBooks desktop, and I thought it was I thought it was fantastic, and I was a desktop, you know, apologist for a very long time. And I didn't want to adopt, you know, adopt the online version, but it has come a long way. It has. I held off myself until 2018. I, I was not interested.

I thought, there's no backups. There's no this. There's no that. Obviously, I found, Chrono Books, which became QuickBooks back up and rewind. So I felt more comfortable doing it. But yeah, I, I waited a good long time, and now I've been at it now, five years, five and a half years. So let me ask you this.

We've there's a lot of discussion in the accounting profession. I'm just going to use that as a it's just a global term. The accounting profession that, you know, includes bookkeepers, accounts, CPAs, enrolled agents, chartered accountants. The discussion is that technology, AI software is going to essentially replace accountants and based on this conversation, it almost seems like your suggestion suggesting that accountants need to niche into being specialist instead of maybe generalist in an area.

And you just happen to choose multi-currency accounting, what do you what do you make of that. And so to be accurate multi-currency accounting chose me. Okay, okay. I fell into it. My whole life has been like that. Anyway, I think you hit the nail on the head, Adam. I do, because, if I didn't have a specialty, one that people seek out or.

Oh, you know, there's only one person to do it. And by the way, I don't want to be the only person that does it. I don't. But, you know, because of that, I'm no longer a commodity. I'm not commoditized. I mean, I could I'm not saying I would do this or that. People would go for it, as a whole, but I can I can quote a high fee because there's nothing comparable to compare it to.

For the next, the next person. They just don't offer it or they don't offer the depth of expertise that I do. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, it's like a doctor. I mean, if you're specialized in a very, very specific part of the body and you happen to have an an ailment in that particular part of the body, I'd rather that doctor help.

Right. Pay them. I pay them way more than somebody else. That's right. And and the fact is, look, we're all getting older and we're all looking for for work life balance. Yeah. And the fact is that I don't want my income or my level of comfort as far as finances are concerned, to be tied to how many hours I clock.

You know, I just I don't want to just don't want to work all the way into the grave, I just don't. Yeah. Because if you take a vacation or even a weekend off or a day off, you're not getting paid. That's right. If you do that. Well, Esther, this has been fantastic. If somebody is listening right now, they're thinking, all right, this sounds very interesting.

I want to learn more from Esther. Where should they go? Well, they can go to my website. E hyphen, copy books, dot com. They can go there and they can reach out to me, through that website. They can also take a look at the book that I have. It's it's available as an e-book on my website.

It's also available on Amazon. And, and it's also available as a paperback on Amazon as well through their print on demand service. And I'm looking at other, other outlets as well to sell the e-book. And, Kubo multi-currency. And Kubo is coming. I can't say when, though. All right, well, we'll put the your website e hyphen coffee book scam in the show notes.

I'll also put the the book we'll link to the book on, on your website and also Amazon in our show notes as well. Esther, thank you so much for being on this show. Thank you. Adam, for having me. It's been a pleasure. And to everyone listening or watching, thank you for spending the last few minutes with us as we discussed how to escape the accountant trap.

Bye for now.